0: Presidents who've apologized for leading us into this on "faulty" intelligence

jpeg 13 Dec 2005

For a little perpective, UNICEF estimated that 35,000-60,000 iraqi children under the age of 5 died each year as a direct result of containing the Hussien regime through non-military means--UN Sanctions. Taking the lower number, that's well over 95,000 child deaths in 1000 days had we NOT gone to war.

Gomez 13 Dec 2005

How do unexploded mines kill people?

Princess Di 14 Dec 2005

I don't recall Bush saying "Think of the children" prior to the war, and you know that pretext would never have mobilized the American public to get behind this phony war. It's a pretty weak justification now that we're left with a steaming pile of lies. Is that the best you got?

jpeg 14 Dec 2005

JPEG, Go back and read the pre-invasion state of the union. It is FILLED with the pro-democracy, anti-totalitarian, and pro-iraqi people references that your hindsight bias seems to prevent you from remembering.

So that fact that up to 180,000 lives have been saved is not justification in contrast with "the steaming pile of lies"? You apparently value partisan politics over lives, I guess.

Gomez 14 Dec 2005

No one said "We must save the children" when it came time to go to war. Instead we were inundated with doomsday scenario tales of WMD, and "slam dunk" intel that was, in fact, a steaming pile of lies. Lies the Bush administration chose to use to further their own agenda. And going to war with Iraq has been on their list of things to do from day one.

No one is arguing that a Saddam-free Iraq can't be a safer place "for the children." That doesn't excuse the make-it-up-as-we-go-along war strategy (I'll use that term loosely) we've had the pleasure to experience from this inept, bumbling and lying administration.

You really think Bush invaded Iraq in the name of democracy, saving babies and all that?

Bullshit.

andrew 14 Dec 2005

Yes, the WMD argument was the main legal justification, but, people forget that the pro-democracy moral justification was also a major part of the case Bush built up since day-friggin'-one.

And, yes, as a matter of fact, the Bush did say we must save the people and children of Iraq in many-a-speech. I repeat, go back and read the pre-invasion state of the union. Really, go back and read it. Don't fall prey to hindsight bias.

The reasons for the war were MANY and there is no need to retread them here. The question of, "should we go to war?" Is long since a moot point. My point was that, if yer gonna quote a bunch of dire statistics about the war, it's only fair that we see that it's not all doom-and-gloom. I just quoted a single number among many of other positive developments in the region since the war. Er... Libya disarms.. ah, syria backs down in Lebanon... massive, open student unrest in Iran... Ahem, free Iraqi elections tomorrow (the first ever in that nation's history!!!), heaven forbid we commend these things lest we look like Bush/Rovian Dittoheads?

Gomez 15 Dec 2005

G, Please find a good picture of horseshit on the web and study it.

jpeg 15 Dec 2005

You are incapable of rationed posistioned argument, fine. Wallow in your extremist, hate-filled dogma.

Gomez 15 Dec 2005

I meant, "rational, positioned argument." I am incapable of spelling.

Gomez 15 Dec 2005

Apparently you're capable of everything though. Welcome to subjectivity... the source of all conflict in the world.

jpeg 15 Dec 2005