Johnny Jpeg,
Don't knock heaven,okay. Some of us still believe in it.

nora 10 Feb 2008

Yeah, and quit dissing Santa and the Tooth fairly and the efficacy of trickle down economics, too!

Unicorn_lover 11 Feb 2008

Many of you Jesus-huggers wait idly by for your "Rapture" but you will all be grist for the mill during the ensuing chaos of Ragnarök that will destroy this world.

My place in Odin's hall of Valhalla is secure. All of you oathbreakers, seducers and worshipers of false gods will have your defiled corpses torn to shreds by wolves.

I await your final glorious call to battle, oh son of Bestla and Borr . . . EULALIA!!!

Carl 11 Feb 2008

Not to be to schmaltzeee but...
All I am saying, that even though I am a not very good Catholic, I still believe in heaven. If I didn't then I would go through life believing that I would never see my mother, grandparents and all the other relatives that I miss and that have died.

Thats all I am saying.

Plus, I only understand half of Carls post.

Nora 11 Feb 2008

My god(s) rock:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_mythology

Carl 11 Feb 2008

I am cheered by the number of bestselling tomes by staunch Athiests now out on the tables at Borders. In one, The End of Faith, the author posits that clinging to fanciful ideas like Heaven and Hell are what will likely be the destruction of civilization because of the ideas at the rot of religious fundamentalism. So while the idea of Heaven may be comforting, it defies all rational thought hard won over the last few centuries, and effectively justifies the thought behind jihad. That's simplifying the argument quite a bit, but it's the gist.

I'm just saying.

il_postino 11 Feb 2008

Oh, and more importantly, how do you get the umlaut special character to show up in HTML, Carl? I need to update my World of Warcraft profile.

il_postino 11 Feb 2008

Copy and paste my friend.

Carl 11 Feb 2008

Nora: "I still believe in heaven. If I didn't then I would go through life believing that I would never see (loved ones again)"

I don't understand what's wrong with a belieif in never seeing them again. If everyone was indoctrinated from childhood in that belief, everyone would accept it.

This is what I expect most Christians would say and it's (forgive me) bass-ackwards. People bring a supernatural fantastical construct (heaven) into existence, to accommodate personal desires? And don't even corroborate their views, with the owners manual of their faith?

"Thank God I don't like peas, because if I liked them I might eat them... and I hate peas."

jpeg 12 Feb 2008

The whole concept of "getting to heaven" and it being a certain way, either just like you were taught it would be or disappointingly different, pretty much fucks with my head. Is heaven even bound by earthly/human rational? If so, why? If it's so unlike anything one has ever experienced, why does religion build it up by making specific promises it can't possibly keep?

Other questions I have:

Will I see Ghandi in heaven? He was pretty fucking awesome, right? But he believed in a different god, so, different heaven?

What if I'm not "good enough" to make the cut for heaven? What if I do get there and find my Mom or other people I love went to the "other place".

To paraphrase Groucho Marx, "I'd never be a member of any club that would have me.".

Carl 12 Feb 2008

Johnny Jpeg,
I am not talking about people you don't care about in life (your lunch lady, teacher,etc), I am talking about people that you actually want to see again. That you loved in this world and that were taken from you to quickly or before you could appreciate them as a adult.

Maybe its because you have never really had anyone close to you die (ie: Mother, Aunt,etc), or maybe its that you associate any religion with right wing nutjob conservatives-but I can't be that cynical. Believing in heaven doesn't make you a Christian conservative, it just makes you someone who believes that hey, the mother that I want to see again, who died of cancer when I was 21, I could see again. I guess my question is if you don't believe in God, heaven, afterlife, religion, any type of faith what do you believe in.

To answer Carls question-I think we see who we want to see in heaven-no matter their religion. Unless your Hitler, George Bush, Stalin,etc-I think the bar for getting into heaven is pretty low. Be a good person (which the Carlsons excel in) and your there. I pretty much expect everyone on this board is there. So I will be seeing everyone at Skanksgiving in Heaven 2150!

Nora 12 Feb 2008

I'm with Nora. I don't think my religion is a black and white "I'm right, and if you don't believe the same things I believe, you're wrong" and I take a lot of my church's teachings with a grain of salt (okay, sometimes lots of salt). Overall, I just believe there might be something greater at work than what we understand.

What's wrong with taking comfort in the idea of heaven? It's pretty fantastical that we exist here on earth to begin with...so who's to say an afterlife is that much more far fetched? It's not a bad thing for us to have different beliefs and I'll respect yours even if you mock mine and call it backasswards. ;-)

Lisa 12 Feb 2008

Taunt The Graf at your peril. You might end up in someone else's construct of H-E-Double-Hockeysticks.

The Editors 12 Feb 2008

Jpeg would like to take this opportunity to direct you to my newsletter entitled "Heaven is what I say it is," and to distinguish this ethnographic/cultural inquiry into where the modern 'heaven' concept comes from (in all it's weird vagaries - Why would I want to do anything for eternity, let alone see my relatives? ...snort), from recent Christian antagnosim, which he will resume after a short break. My 'bass-ackwards' remark was about the logic with which one constructs ones deepest beliefs, not the usual attempt to mock/topple religion. There's plenty of time for that later.

jpeg 13 Feb 2008